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Sweden Carl-Johan Ryner's blog« See all C-J's blogs

The red line.
19 Jan 2009 at 10:45 | Posted in: General | Views: 4225 | Comments: 16
I’ve heard that it’s always harder the second time around. Finding a topic for today has certainly been a lot harder than last week, but hopefully you won’t get bored to death before you reach the end of the post. If you start to lose feeling in any of your limbs, please take a pause or stop reading all together. That being said, let’s get to the topic.

The borderline. A little piece of red tape or red line drawn straight across the lane, which the ball has to pass in order for you to be allowed to play from another position that the tee. On three of our systems there’s not much to discuss. On concrete and eternite you can continue playing once you have passed it, even if the ball comes back out and to rest on the “wrong” side of the red line. You just position it on the red line, or on the repositioning line, and continue playing. When playing on an adventure course, at least those I’ve played on, as long as you have hit the ball you continue where it stops.

Now, we have the fine Nordic felt-system. When I started playing the rule of the border line was really easy. If the ball passed the line and came to rest there you were allowed to continue. If the ball came to rest between the tee and the red line, you played your next shot from the tee. This would apply even if the ball had passed the red line and come back.
But at the 2001 World Championships in Vaasa there was a disagreement with the Nordic countries on one side and pretty much the rest on the other side. Or at least there was Sweden on one side and Germany on the other. The problem was that we, having felt as “our” system, insisted on that if a ball came back across the red line on a lane with elevated green, you had to play from the tee again. In the rule book I believe it said the “The ball has to stay in the green”. The others used this not quite perfectly phrased rule by saying that if the ball the cut the hole and jumped over the back board of the green, then you’d have to play from the tee. This of course weren’t acceptable to us and I believe that in the end our interpretation was turned down altogether.

Nowadays, in Sweden, we play felt by rules that have been adapted to the International rules, but we still keep some of our old rules. The most noticeably are the two on lanes with elevated greens and German ledge with plateau. I’m a strong believer of that you shouldn’t be allowed to use a much to fast ball to clear for example a fishbone by having it reach the green and come back down again. There’s an art of playing an accurately paced shot on those lane just like it is on concrete and eternite in order to get an ace. I don’t think anyone can convince me that be allowed to replace the ball in the green is a better way, but you’re all invited to try.

On the German ledge with plateau we play the ball from the tee as long as it doesn’t come to rest on the plateau, while the international rules states that you should, of course, reposition the ball on the plateau. I can’t understand that either; you’re taking away a tactical option the player has. At my home course in Uppsala we have this lane as no 17 and that invites us to play the first shot to the plateau and then have a much easier second shot if that’s enough to win a round or match. If we choose to go for the ace, it could easily end up in a 4, 5 or even worse. With the international rule it would be ridiculous, since you would almost never score higher than a 2.

Now I guess that the two or three that read this and doesn’t know me think that I’m a grumpy old player who likes to complain about a lot of things. The rest of you know that I am. Well, it might not be completely true; at least I hope it isn’t. But I do have a lot of ideas for changes and I normally relay them to someone who can do something about it. With this blog I can air my ideas and get a lot of good comments on them first.

One final thing is regarding a felt lane on which we use the international rule in Sweden and it’s not, according to me, a good one at all. I can see the problem with changing it back to how it once was, but for me the pros are much greater than the cons. The lane in question is the Gentleman and the rule is what happens when a ball comes to rest on the edge of the metal arch. This is called trough in the rule book which translates to washing-up sink or wooden rectangular container. It might be a correct use of trough, but I think I’ll go with metal arch for the time being. The rule book simply states that if the ball comes to rest at the top of the metal arch, the ball will be replaced at the tee. Why the ball isn’t considered as in is beyond me. It must be much harder to play a shot and have the ball stop on the edge and if anything you should get a lower score for accomplishing that. Of course that’s not possible, but surely it should be better for all if the ball was considered to be in the hole. We wouldn’t have to call on the referee to judge if the ball is actually on the edge or 0.5 mm inside the edge, in which case the ball is in the hole. If every ball that stops on the arch is counted as in there’s no discussion and the player is happy and moves on. There’s a problem that could arise if there’s a green on the lane. Then the border line is at the beginning of the green and then of course since the ball hasn’t passed the border line you’d have to play from the tee. I could accept these different rules for the same type of lane, but I would prefer that the ball is counted as in also when there’s a green. The only thing you have to do is to place the ball in the green, but I guess that the rule when there’s a green is tough to change.

Maybe we should just adopt the adventure golf's use of the red line and get rid of all discussions. Imaging the interesting positions you could end up in on different lanes. Between the first and second pyramid would be a challenge for players of all skill.

I will now leave those few of you that have survived this post with a couple of encouraging word from the Murphy part of life. “If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.”

previous comments    next comments
Comments (16)

Sweden Viking (Pierre Geerhold) | Delete

19 Jan 2009 at 13:01
@ Tiek I dont mean that we should decide everything just because it´s "our" system even if thats how it sounds. All i mean is that it seems like the Germans have the finishing ruleing about everything and if that mean whatever system i think its f****d up.
Btw it would be fun too hear about the strange things you mentioned in a post or a blog.

Sweden C-J (Carl-Johan Ryner) | Delete

19 Jan 2009 at 12:08
Damn, you are all quick. 4 comments in the first hour. Maybe not a really boring subject after all. :)
@Tiek - Nice to hear that you agree with me on the first two points. Maybe you've been playing in Sweden too long :)
Like Viking said, the rule on the Gentleman was once as I suggest it should be changed to. Although if the ball stopped when there was a green you were allowed to putt the ball with your finger. That's not really good... I can agree with you Erik, if there is a clear definition on when the ball is in on a Gentleman, like there is on a Labyrinth, then I can accept that the rule will stay the same, even though I will not like it. :)

Netherlands Tiek (Erik Tiekstra) | Delete

19 Jan 2009 at 11:41
@Viking,
Because the Swedes invented the felt courses (is that originally so?) doesn't mean they get the right to decide the rules within the WMF. The reason to have international rules is to have the same in each country. I am still quite surprised to see some "strange" things happening when I am playing in Sweden.

Sweden Hans (Hans Bergström) | Delete

19 Jan 2009 at 11:36
Sweden has for sure had great influence in the rules and the approve lanes used in Swedish Felt. So here I don't think the Germans or any other are to blame. Sometimes compromises are done and some of us in Sweden might think it's strange.

I was myself doing a compromise 2007 when we (Sweden) withdrawn a motion to the delegates conference that was trying to get ride of the fact that about 20 of our felt courses in Sweden are actually MOS courses according to WMF, including my own home town of Uddevalla.

The simple reason is that we have lanes not included in the WMF Rule book. And the lanes included were more or less defined by Swedes. But before the meeting I had a "evening meeting" with WMF TC and we agreed that its was more important that we can internationally agree what is a Swedish felt course and we have 32 lanes to built it from, than that we in Sweden thought it was strange that some of our courses which we all agreed is Felt wasn't classified as felt. So swallow your pride for the sake of International Minigolf.

Sweden Viking (Pierre Geerhold) | Delete

19 Jan 2009 at 11:16
Interesting post C-J. The rule you are talking about on the Gentleman hasnt always been like that here in Sweden if i remember it correctly. Wasn´t it like you said in the old days, it was in if it was on the arch?
And i have to say that it´s very disturbing that we should need too adapt too other countries rules on "our system". Sure i can accept the rules on concrete, eternite, MOS but that´s not our systems. What i have heard is that its the Germans who can decide the most of the rule changes. If thats true that they have all that power so they can be the "almighty´s" and decide all the rules it´s F****D up! It seems like all the new rules are there too make it easier for some bad felt nations too make good results and not be distanced by good felt nations. I think it would be alot more fun with tougher rules and lanes so you can improve your skills.

Netherlands Tiek (Erik Tiekstra) | Delete

19 Jan 2009 at 11:11
Again some interesting thoughts CJ!
I've talked with you some days ago and I said that I would prefer the same rules on each system. That would be making it easier. I didn't really think well I guess, because I totally agree with you on those points you are stated. At least on those types of courses you stated and are only found on Felt courses.
Except the last point you state about the Gentleman, I don't agree with you. We saw some thing on the labyrinth at the Swedish Cup where Johan Ahlander played and the ball stopped on top of the "arch" inside the labyrinth. The same problem there, also not crossed the border line. I think this is a good rule, but you need to know where the ball has to be to say it is in... This is just not the case on many of those lanes.
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