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25% of players exceeded playing time limit at YNC


World 07 Jul 2009 at 13:50 | Published by: JJM | Views: 4143 | News search

25% of players exceeded playing time limit at YNC At Youth Nations Cup 2009 in Waldshut, Germany, WMF officials measured the time used by all players for arriving to a minigolf lane and preparing for the shot. The measurement was done twice for each player, at the most difficult lane of the two minigolf courses. The results have been published anonymously, without mentioning the names of the players.

In 25% of the cases, the player exceeded the time limit of 60 seconds (or 70 seconds for the first player of the group) preparing for the shot. Yet the referees seldom gave any warnings or other sanctions to the players in the competition.

In the report discussing the findings, WMF Youth Committee recommends that players should be "encouraged" to arrive more quickly to the lane, to save time in the long competition days. The report of WMF Youth Committee does not emphasize any need to give warnings or sanctions to players who break the time limits specified in WMF rulebook. Many minigolf leaders from other parts of the world than Central Europe would recommend doing exactly that, however.

» news article at WMF news website

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Comments (15)


Finland JJM (John Mittler)

08 Jul 2009 at 17:38
As I said before, typically Central European minigolf leaders think that slow play is not any problem for minigolf, and leaders from other parts of the world think that it is one of the biggest problems of minigolf.

I believe that one of the main reasons why Central Europeans decided to get Hans B out of EMF board in Tampere 2008 elections, was his bold critical attitude about slow play at Nations Cup 2008, where Klosek made an unofficial world record 11 minutes 11 seconds playing just one shot.

Denmark magle23 (Christian Due Maglemose)

08 Jul 2009 at 16:38
I still think this is a big problem and some players use way to much time and if we have a rule it is not okay that the players break it time after time and it`s up to the referee to do something about.
I hope that WMF will do something about it because it`s a problem we have had way to long time and some of the things i have tryed because the missing of time in a turnement is not okay.

Denmark Freddy (Casper Frederiksen)

08 Jul 2009 at 05:20
well.. just as a litlle snide remark I can say, that the the first thing I noticed as I saw the results, was the surprisingly many recommendations and warnings :) without knowing the exact numbers of other competitions I still think there was really many of these compared to other youth championships.

Finland HansIII (Pasi Aho)

07 Jul 2009 at 23:11
First of all, WMF YC and TC have not analyzed the results yet. We have just produced the report until now. The time for analysis will come. Also further tests are in planning at future tournaments.

Secondly, when it comes to Hans' question: No, I am not personally surprised that 25 % of the first shots took too much time and that the reason was mostly in the slow going to the lane and less in concentrating too long. That's approximately in line with my personal expectations. But I definitely am surprised that none of the following shots or putts took too much time. Here one must however state, that these lanes were rather simple when it comes to preparing the ball. Having more preparation work might have caused more violations. Might...that's only speculation, but it is fair to expect this to be the case.

Thirdly to JJM's comment: Is your opinion really that of the three referees in total (one on each course + head referee moving between the courses) one should have stayed at this test lane all the time as 53 players were rolling through, waiting for time violations and ignoring all the other lanes on "his course"? If it is, then our opinions of minigolf are even further from each other than what I have imagined from our various debates until now. And in that case I even dare to say that I am closer to the optimum, even if I still may be far from it. I hope this was just another one of your provocative statements and not your real opinion. If you have read the result list of the YNC, you hardly can say that our referees closed their eyes in front of the rule violations.

Finland JJM (John Mittler)

07 Jul 2009 at 20:32
I think that for many of us, the interesting question is what "WMF" thinks about the referee action (in this competition and in future competitions), if 25% of players break the time limit rules but referees do nothing about it?

Sweden Hans (Hans Bergström)

07 Jul 2009 at 19:21
@Pasi
I would be interested to hear from you if you think the results of the study is good or bad? The report is unbiased and maybe that’s the way it should be but still it interesting to hear how WMF Youth Committee, TC etc. is interpreting the result of 25%. Is it more than expected or less? What was actually expected?

Finland HansIII (Pasi Aho)

07 Jul 2009 at 19:04
JJM, we decided to sign with WMF, since that seems to be the word that draws your attention easiest in any context. To be serious, what signifigance has the fact who wrote the report. It is a common work of the education participants and Youth Committee, supported by Technical Committee.

For those who don't know the course or were not in Waldshut, I may tell you that lane 4 was not the one which defined the game flow. It was lane 2 most of the time, because ball was usually rolling much longer after a missed shot and the putts took often as much time as the first shot. On with the discussion, JJM is already about to find the usual sound.

Portugal AS (André Silva)

07 Jul 2009 at 17:58
As a contribution to spare some precious time I think that a few rules should be more freely read. More difficult lanes (4, 7, 15 and 16 of beton for ex.) should never be left free. If the pairing that have just played those lanes was not allowed to play the next one for being yet occupied by the precedent pairing, the following team should be allowed to play those lanes though the rule book says "one pair/one lane".

Portugal AS (André Silva)

07 Jul 2009 at 17:47
John, of course the players didn't brake any rule arriving to the next lane. There's no time limit for that. You only have to move asap. It's the time of cleaning the lane and taking the shot that's got to be, if not reduced, at least strictly observed.

Finland JJM (John Mittler)

07 Jul 2009 at 16:57
This study decided to measure the total playing time in two parts, "arriving to the lane" and "preparing for the shot".

25% of players used more than 70/60 sec total playing time ("arriving to the lane" + "preparing for the shot"). Some players actually used more than 70/60 sec for arriving to the lane, but the 25% does not refer to this.

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Youth domination at "20 hours" marathon in Novi Ligure

Italy 06 Jul 2009 at 21:36 | views: 3973 | Comments: 0

The 1st edition of the "20 hours" pair marathon has been played on Novi Ligure miniaturegolf course last weekend. The tournament started at 6 p.m. on Saturday 4th July and ended at 2 p.m. on Sunday 5th. The game went on very fast, so that 21 rounds were ...
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Youth domination at "20 hours" marathon in Novi Ligure

Kellard and Williamson are British champions 2009

Kellard and Williamson are British champions 2009

United Kingdom 06 Jul 2009 at 20:22 | views: 3952 | Comments: 2

Keith Kellard won the first British Champion title of his playing career on 4–5 July 2009, by playing average score 34.43 at the "Seafront Mini Golf" adventure golf course in Hastings. The defending champion Tim Davies was second, with average 35.29, 6 ...
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Dace wins Latvian championships 2009

Latvia 06 Jul 2009 at 17:17 | views: 3919 | Comments: 2

Dace Kupce-Krievina made a rare visit to Latvian minigolf competitions, and left the usual favourite Madara Kirša far behind at Latvian Championships in Liepaja, which was also part 4 of Latvian Trophy 2009 season. Dace played average score 23.40 at the ...
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Dace wins Latvian championships 2009

Deep blue when Olsson wins again

Deep blue when Olsson wins again

Sweden 06 Jul 2009 at 09:19 | views: 4649 | Comments: 0

Once again this 2009 outdoor season the best player in a highly qualified starting field was Anders Olsson of Uppsala. At Sundays felt competition in Jönköping Anders won by scoring all blue scores with a exceptional low outdoor score of 107 (29, 28, 25, 25). ...
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